Mitch Duckler, Managing Partner at FullSurge, discusses his book “The Future-Ready Brand.” He explores how CMOs navigate societal trends and emerging technologies, including brand purpose, wellness shifts, and Gen Z marketing. We discuss AI in marketing, extended reality, and Web3 opportunities. Mitch emphasizes the need for CMOs to experiment with new technologies and adapt to rapid changes. Learn innovative strategies for future-proofing brands in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Episode Transcript
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Adrian Tennant: Coming up in this episode of IN CLEAR FOCUS,
Mitch Duckler: There’s been a gradual but persistent trend around a new definition of wellness. It’s about complete wellness, so that means your physical, your mental, and emotional health. And some marketers are taking that to heart and really thinking about how their brand – that may not be in a quote-unquote “health” category – really is being impacted by the concept of wellness.
Adrian Tennant: You’re listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, fresh perspectives on marketing and advertising, produced weekly by Bigeye a strategy-led full-service creative agency growing brands for clients globally. Hello, I’m your host, Adrian Tennant, Chief Strategy Officer. Thank you for joining us. The role of the Chief Marketing Officer has expanded significantly in recent years, moving beyond traditional marketing functions to encompass data analytics, customer experience, and digital transformation. As technology reshapes consumer behavior and market dynamics, CMOs are increasingly called upon to drive innovation and growth across their entire organization. Our guest today is an expert on brand strategy and has interviewed some of the world’s most influential CMOs, learning how they navigate these complex challenges and opportunities. Mitch Duckler is the founder and managing partner of FullSurge, a brand and marketing strategy consultancy based in Chicago. With over three decades of experience, Mitch has worked with numerous Fortune 500 companies and world-class brands. He’s also a faculty member of the Association of National Advertisers’ Marketing Training and Development Centre and an Amazon best-selling author. His latest book, published by Forbes, is “The Future-Ready Brand: How the World’s Most Influential CMOs are Navigating Societal Forces and Emerging Technologies.” To discuss some of its key ideas, I’m delighted that Mitch is joining us today from Chicago, Illinois. Mitch, welcome to IN CLEAR FOCUS!
Mitch Duckler: Hi Adrian, thanks for having me.
Adrian Tennant: “The Future-Ready Brand” is your second book. How does it differ from your first, which was called “The Indispensable Brand”?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, it’s actually a fairly different book. “The Indispensable Brand” was really a lot of the basics or the foundations of brand-building and marketing, things like brand positioning, brand architecture, brand experience and growth, et cetera. This book, “The Future-Ready Brand,” as the title would imply, is very much about what the future of marketing and brand building will look like, given the confluence of societal and technological trends that are impacting marketing almost as dramatically as the dawn of the internet did about a quarter century ago.
Adrian Tennant: What inspired you to write this new book?
Mitch Duckler: The inspiration really was through a lot of the client work. I just started noticing, I’d say over the last four or five years especially, marketers are grappling with a lot of the same issues. And some of them are societal, which is really the first section of the book. Things like purpose and transparency, changing attitudes towards health and wellness, the emergence of Gen Z. Right? Those are societal issues that I think are impacting marketers and especially in terms of how they position their brands. And then at the same time, there are technological forces or trends that I think we’re all familiar with. Things like artificial intelligence, extended reality, blockchain technology, and Web3. that are impacting them as well. And it just prompted me to say, “How are all these things kind of combining and interrelated in some ways? And how are they shaping how marketers are approaching their jobs, really?”
Adrian Tennant: Well, your book has three sections which examine new ways that CMOs are considering the roles that positioning, personalization, and promotion play in modern brand development. In the first section, as you mentioned, you discuss societal trends. One of the chapters focuses on brand purpose. Mitch, in what ways are CMOs in purpose-driven organizations delivering on the three Cs of culture, competence, and cause?
Mitch Duckler: Well, it was really interesting as I spoke to CMOs about this topic, about purpose, it became clear that purpose is really existing at potentially three different levels. At the base level, I would say most companies have a CSR, Corporate Social Responsibility program or initiative. That’s all well and good, right? It’s great to have. Some companies are taking that a step further and they consider themselves to be purpose-driven. So this goes far beyond just an initiative or a platform like a CSR, but their very reason for being, if you will, is driven by that purpose. It’s what gets them out of bed in the morning, if you will. And then some CMOs actually have gone a step further, and they’re positioning their master brand around that purpose, right? So it’s far more certainly than a CSR, and it’s more than even just being purpose-driven, which can be, if desired, just very internally focused. But they’re actually positioning their master brand, the external manifestation of their brand positioning around that purpose. And I think that’s really where it gets exciting. Again, it’s not something that companies or marketers need to do, but it’s really powerful when these three concepts come together. Your business strategy, your purpose, and your brand positioning. It’s really kind of a powerful thing.
Adrian Tennant: You also examine changing attitudes towards health and wellness, especially post-pandemic. Mitch, how has this shift impacted CMO’s brand marketing strategies? And can you provide an example of a brand that’s adapted really well?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, I think there’s a few. So in general, what I’d say is there’s been a gradual but persistent trend around a new, more comprehensive definition of wellness. So it’s more than just the absence of illness, and it’s more than just being healthy. It’s about complete wellness. So that means your physical, your mental, and emotional health. And what was interesting is how some marketers are taking that to heart and really thinking about how their brand that may not be in a quote-unquote health category really is being impacted by the concept of wellness. So one example is I spoke with the CMO of Danone, and there’s a yogurt brand called Souvenir that affects the synapses in the brain, right, which improves long-term memory health over time. So again, this is a yogurt brand, right, that is playing in the long-term memory benefit space. Lagunitas is a subsidiary of Heineken, right, so this is alcoholic beverages. They’re considering herbal additives for non-alcoholic beers that can have benefits for things like digestion, your energy levels, sleep, and so forth. So these, I think, are examples of how product companies are thinking about how their brands, which may not be in a quote-unquote wellness space, really need to address different aspects of wellness to be relevant. And then I think also, especially since the isolation that resulted from COVID-19, there’s increasingly a social component to wellness. So companies are thinking about how they can incorporate more of, uh, you know, a sense of community into their brand experience. You know, community is obviously core to brands like Peloton and SoulCycle, for example, as they recognize consumers’ desire for social connection.
Adrian Tennant: Of course, your book also explores the emergence of Gen Z as a powerful consumer force. Mitch, can you explain the concept of Gen Z Me, versus Gen Z We, and how marketers should approach this duality?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, it was really interesting. I wasn’t aware of it. This was a conversation that I had with Stefano Curti, who is the CMO of Coty. And he talked about, as you mentioned, Gen Z Me and Gen Z We. So Gen Z Me is, you know, they’re into escapism and self-empowerment. They’re very style-conscious, they’re fashion-driven, and they tend to be a little bit more reactive than proactive. Things that are important to them are things like authenticity and transparency, individualism and personalization, and self-expression. They’re very much into connection and into experience. These are the gamers, if you will, of Gen Z. Then there’s this other aspect. Again, sometimes these are separate consumers; sometimes they’re just two different aspects of the same, but Gen Z We – they’re more optimistic and unfiltered. They’re driven by purpose and beliefs. They take action, right? They’re not reactive like their Me counterparts. So what’s important to them? Meaning and purpose, diversity and inclusion, sustainability and ESG. This is actually what I think a lot of people associate with Gen Z, this Gen Z we component, even though statistically, at least according to Coty, they’re only about 35% of Gen Z, with Me representing the other 65%.
Adrian Tennant: Moving to the second section of your book, which focuses on emerging technologies, you discuss AI in marketing. What are some specific AI applications that CMOs are using, and how are they mitigating potential risks?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, it’s interesting because the research that I conducted, as well as the interviews that I conducted, are suggesting that the rate of adoption of this technology is just incredible. Some 70% of CMOs are using AI in some way, shape, or form today. Another 20% say that they are testing it, so that’s 90%. overall for what is still, relatively speaking, a new technology. So obviously the use of generative AI, like chat GPT, is very widespread. But there are two themes in particular that rose to the top in my interviews, as well as through secondary research, that AI is playing a big role in now, and those are micro-segmentation and hyper-personalization, and they’re obviously very closely related. But micro-segmentation is the ability to, as the name would imply, segment markets just on a much, much finer, more granular level than ever before. And it’s really the computing power of AI that enables that. So all of a sudden, we’re not talking about five or six segments, like in a standard segmentation study. We’re talking about hundreds or even thousands of segments that are much more individual in nature, almost approaching one-to-one marketing. And then hyper-personalization is once you have that micro-segmentation, right? You’re not treating everybody like they’re alike or part of a big six segment schema, right? You’re able to personalize everything from the offer to the experience to make your brand so much more relevant to consumers. So those two concepts I think are huge and really game changing this. Again, these notions of micro-segmentation and hyper-personalization.
Adrian Tennant: That’s on the marketer side. From the consumer perspective, you also explore extended reality or XR technologies. Mitch, can you define these for us and share an example of a brand using XR effectively?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, and in total transparency, I am not a technology expert, right? So if I butcher these definitions, I apologize. So by extended reality, it’s really virtual reality, the augmented reality, mixed reality, right? So if you break them into their component pieces, virtual reality is, you know, computer-generated simulation of a three-dimensional image or environment that can be interacted with in a way that just seems very real, right, through the use of special electronic equipment such as headsets or goggles. And it just increases the sense of reality and it takes it to the next level. So, you know, one example of this is Harley-Davidson has test drives, right, test rides, so you can actually, in a three-dimensional environment, see what it’s like to ride a Harley-Davidson in different environments, on different terrain, different roads, etc. right? It’s just much more real than if you’re watching it on a two-dimensional video. Augmented reality, conversely, is technology that superimposes the computer-generated image onto a consumer’s view of the real world, right? So virtual try-ons are great examples of these. Warby Parker glasses, for example, you can see without actually having to physically try on a pair of Warby Park glasses, you can see through augmented reality what those frames are going to look like on your face or what a pair of Levi jeans, for example, are going to look like on you without actually having to go into the store and try them on. In-store navigation is another great example of augmented reality where I think big box retailers are great users of these, like Home Depot and Lowe’s, they can use QR codes that can initiate augmented reality for this purpose and help you kind of navigate the store, understand where things are located and even see demonstrations of their various products in a simulated environment. So those I think are some good examples of both augmented and virtual reality that are benefiting consumers today and just making for a much, much more immersive experience.
Adrian Tennant: Thank you. Let’s take a short break. We’ll be right back after this message.
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Adrian Tennant: Welcome back. I’m talking with Mitch Duckler, the founder and managing partner of FullSurge, and the author of “The Future-Ready Brand: How the world’s most influential CMOs are navigating societal forces and emerging technologies.” The third emerging technology that you explore in your book is Web3. Mitch, I’m curious, what opportunities and challenges does Web3 present for marketers? And how did you find the most forward-thinking CMOs are preparing for this new world?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, I think when it comes to Web3, NFTs and crypto are grabbing all the headlines, for better or worse, right? But blockchain technology, which is really the underlying technology for Web3 and beyond, most experts believe this will eventually result in sort of a democratization of the web. The security and transparency that is provided by blockchain technology could eventually eliminate the need for big tech intermediaries like Google and Facebook and allow brands to have more direct and meaningful relationships with consumers. So that really I think will be the really exciting future of a Web3 where again, marketers don’t need to go through Google and Facebook, right? Essentially to reach consumers. They will have much more direct access. And I think that’s what’s exciting to the CMOs that I spoke with the most about this technology. Certainly NFTs and cryptos and so forth and tokenomics are things that they’re reacting to now, but they really see the bigger picture on the horizon of what blockchain can represent in the future.
Adrian Tennant: It’s really difficult to think of a world without the Googles, the Facebooks, and so on. So, really intriguing.
Mitch Duckler: Yeah. It’s really consumers owning their own data, right? Through these electronic wallets that are secure through blockchain. And all of a sudden you don’t need to log into an app through your Google or your Facebook interface, right? It’s just more direct access. And you’re right. It is difficult to get your head around rather in terms of what that means, but you can imagine the potential is just enormous.
Adrian Tennant: In the final section of “The Future-Ready Brand,” you reflect on how the trends and technologies you’ve discussed in the book impact specific areas of marketing. One chapter here focuses on content marketing, while another explores gamification. Mitch, how are new technologies enhancing content and gamified experiences for consumers?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, so in terms of content, I mean, the most obvious and pronounced area, one that we’re all familiar with is generative AI, right? And ChatGPT is helping in generate content and improving productivity and efficiency massively for marketers in general, but content marketers in particular. But one thing that was evident through the interviews that I conducted with CMOs and how they’re using AI is that generative AI in particular is helping virtually every phase or every aspect of content marketing discipline. So the way they’re conducting research, the way they’re creating content, how they’re personalizing content, it’s helping also in the curation and the optimization of content. So it’s really a fairly pronounced and comprehensive impact that it’s having on the field of content marketing. Versioning is a huge application of artificial intelligence and the effect it’s having on content marketing. The ability of content marketers to develop just one piece of content and then quote unquote translate it, if you will, for different industries and verticals, for different applications, for different geographies and languages. You know, I talked to CMOs who are saying, I used to have to do seven versions of a content piece because, you know, I market to seven different industry verticals. And now it’s really just one and AI takes care of all the rest. They take it and they make it applicable or relevant for individual industries. So I think that’s really a great demonstration of the powerful impact that AI is having on content. You know, in terms of gamification. I think this is still a bit out there yet and still in the wait and see realm, but I did talk to marketers who have hopes for and are experimenting with the ability of AI to personalize gamification. By that I mean actually tailor the aspects of gamification based on, for example, an individual user’s skill level, right? So it’s like adaptive learning. Again, I think that’s still kind of in its infancy, but a lot of potential there as well.
Adrian Tennant: Throughout your book, you include insights from interviews that you conducted with influential CMOs. I’m curious, Mitch, who offered the most surprising or impactful insights, and what made them stand out to you?
Mitch Duckler: I’m not going to name a specific CMO, but rather a class or a genre of CMOs, if you will. And that was the B2B CMOs that I spoke with. So I spoke with, as you might imagine, both B2B and B2C chief marketing officers. But the B2B CMOs who I talked to really expressed the most excitement for the emerging technology, and specifically artificial intelligence. And they talked about AI as a means to really elevate the profile and stature of marketing in the C-suite across the organization. So this isn’t an issue that B2C, especially CPG CMOs grapple with. I think that they inherently are More influential right across the organization but a lot of B2B CMOs who might struggle with relevance their level of relevance relative to other functions in the C suite really see this as a game changer right there ability to understand. the market and understand customers and trends and to be able to use things like predictive analytics to be much more scientific and disciplined in their approach to their function is really game changing and they really see it as exciting potential. And I just thought that was really inspiring for them and for the marketing function as a whole.
Adrian Tennant: That’s great. Based on your research and your own experience, what do you see as the biggest challenge and the most exciting opportunity facing CMOs over the next three to five years, let’s say?
Mitch Duckler: So I think it’s both a challenge and an opportunity, and this kind of goes back to what I talked about at the beginning. It’s just there is an incredible level of change coming at them all at once. So as you mentioned in the book, I kind of divide them somewhat artificially, perhaps, into two different sections, right? Societal and technological. But, and I just mentioned three in each and there are more, but when you think about just each of these forces that I talk about in the book, right? So in society, we talk about the desire for transparency and changing attitudes towards health and wellness and Gen Z. And then on technology, we’re talking about AI and XR and Web3. Each one of these is massive in and of itself, individually, right? Collectively, it’s just an enormous amount of change to grapple with at one time. But at the same time, it’s also exciting, right, and opportunistic. So as CMOs are able to not only grapple with, but actually embrace the change and the interaction of all these different forces and changes at once, I think it just poses a lot of opportunity for them, again, as I mentioned on the previous question, to be much more influential in their roles.
Adrian Tennant: Mitch, finally, what advice would you give to marketers or brand managers listening to this podcast who want to future-proof their strategies?
Mitch Duckler: Well, it’s the same advice that the CMOs themselves gave and that they’re following, and that is, especially with regard to the technologies, you cannot take a wait-and-see attitude. You can’t be off on the sidelines watching the action. You need to kind of get involved. You need to dip your toe in the water. As they say, start slow, but start right. They’re not waiting for everything to be answered. They’re not waiting to understand what shakes out eventually with AI or which metaverse platform, if any, is the eventual winner. They’re starting and they’re experimenting incrementally. They’re testing and learning. They’re failing fast. I mean, I know these are cliches, but it really is the advice that they’re following. You can’t really wait and see. You need to kind of experiment and test and learn and be willing to make some mistakes along the way.
Adrian Tennant: Great conversation, Mitch, thank you. I know we’ve only scratched the surface of your book. I really appreciated the scope of the book and the fact that you make so much of the technology pieces really accessible to other marketers. So thank you very much for writing it and bringing it to the market. If listeners would like to learn more about your new book, “The Future-Ready Brand,” or your consultancy, FullSurge, what’s the best way to contact you?
Mitch Duckler: Yeah, a couple of ways. So, as you mentioned, my consultancy is FullSurge. So we are at FullSurge: F U L L S U R G E.com. You can learn more about me, the firm, as well as the books on FullSurge.com. The books are also pretty much any online retailer, including Amazon, are selling the books. So feel free to check them out there. I’m also on LinkedIn and welcome you to connect with me there if you so desire.
Adrian Tennant: Perfect. Mitch, thank you very much for being our guest on IN CLEAR FOCUS!
Mitch Duckler: Thank you, Adrian. I really enjoyed the conversation.
Adrian Tennant: Thanks again to my guest this week, Mitch Duckler, the author of “The Future-Ready Brand.” As always, you’ll find a complete transcript of our conversation with timestamps and links to the resources we discussed on the IN CLEAR FOCUS page at bigeyeagency.com – just select ‘Insights’ from the menu. Thank you for listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, produced by Bigeye. I’ve been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next week, goodbye.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 – Introduction to Bigeye’s Retail Revolution Study
00:59 – New Definition of Wellness
03:15 – “The Future-Ready Brand” vs. “The Indispensable Brand”
06:59 – Impact of Changing Attitudes Towards Health and Wellness
08:54 – Emergence of Gen Z
10:58 – AI Applications in Marketing
12:45 – Extended Reality Technologies
16:40 – Web3 Opportunities and Challenges
18:48 – Content Marketing and Gamification
21:13 – Insights from Influential CMOs
23:08 – Challenges and Opportunities for CMOs
24:39 – Advice for Future-Proofing Marketing Strategies
