Sandy Skees, author of the new book Purposeful Brands, discusses brand purpose, sustainability, and ESG communications. We examine how marketers can foster positive environmental and social outcomes and why Sandy believes businesses must commit to their purpose in order to create a flourishing planet and equitable society. IN CLEAR FOCUS listeners can claim a 25 percent discount on Purposeful Brands at KoganPage.com by using the promo code BIGEYE25 at the checkout.

Episode Transcript

Adrian Tennant: Coming up in this episode of IN CLEAR FOCUS: 

Sandy Skees: In order to meet the challenges of climate change and to create a society that’s less divisive, we need businesses to lean into their purpose, their responsibility for creating a thriving planet, and an equitable society.

Adrian Tennant: You are listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, fresh perspectives on the business of advertising, produced weekly by Bigeye: a strategy-led, full-service creative agency growing brands for clients globally. Hello, I’m your host, Adrian Tennant, Chief Strategy Officer. Thank you for joining us. Over the past several years, national and global surveys have shown that consumers have become more conscious of the social, environmental, and ethical implications of their purchasing decisions. Younger consumers – such as Millennials and members of Generation Z – report prioritizing brands that align with their personal values and beliefs. And with the rise of social media, consumers have greater access to information about brands’ policies and practices. Consumers are ready and willing to hold brands accountable for their actions. Our Bigeye Book Club Selection for May is Purposeful Brands: How Purpose and Sustainability Drive Brand Value and Positive Change written by Sandy Skees. The book offers marketers a practical blueprint for defining and communicating a brand’s purpose, as well as fostering alignment across the enterprise, explaining what’s required to support a brand’s mission, values, and sustainability initiatives. Sandy is EVP, Global Purpose and Impact Lead at Porter Novelli, a leading communications consultancy, part of the Omnicom Group. With over three decades of expertise in management consulting and strategic communications, Sandy has worked with clients including Visa, Abercrombie and Fitch, eBay, and Panasonic, among many others. Recognized as PR Week’s Most Purposeful Agency Pro of 2021, Sandy holds a board director position at Sustainable Brands and is an experienced speaker on branding, messaging and sustainability topics. To discuss some of the ideas in their book, Purposeful Brands, Sandy is joining us today from their home in Santa Cruz, California. Sandy, welcome to IN CLEAR FOCUS!

Sandy Skees: Good to be here with you.

Adrian Tennant: You’ve written a lot of industry magazine editorials and academic papers, including for the Journal of Brand Strategy, but this is your first book. What prompted you to write Purposeful Brands?

Sandy Skees: You know, I think after doing this work now for almost two decades – and by “this work,” I mean exclusively in purpose and sustainability – after more than 15 years in communications, I was ready to sit down and gather my thoughts about how the intersection of purpose and sustainability in ESG with communications is such an important dimension for creating positive change. And so what I was attempting to do is two things. One: put almost three decades’ worth of expertise down on paper, but specifically in order to accelerate change, it’s my view that in order to meet the challenges of climate change and to create a society that’s less divisive, we need businesses to lean into their purpose, their responsibility for creating a thriving planet, and an equitable society. And so if I can tell people how to do that, then maybe more will do it, and then the change will happen faster. So that’s why I wrote the book.

Adrian Tennant: Purposeful Brands is organized into 10 chapters. The first of these is Defining your brand’s purpose. Sandy, could you explain the differences between a brand’s purpose, its mission, and its vision statement and how they complement one another?

Sandy Skees: This is such a great question, Adrian, because I think a lot of people conflate purpose with mission and vision, and even values to some extent, and then they conflate it with sustainability and ESG. So let me start with your question about what’s the difference between a purpose and a mission. The way that I define purpose in the book and the way that I hope all of us will share in this definition is purpose is a business strategy that a company deploys in response to its sense of responsibility to create some greater good in the world through its business. It drives value for the company as the business that it’s in, and it takes responsibility for some piece of the commons. And by commons, I mean all those things that we depend on but none of us own, like fresh water, clean air, a functioning society, an equitable society. All those things are the commons and a company in what it makes, how it makes it, who it makes it for, or maybe leaves out, all of those are ways in which a company can organize the breadth of its resources towards addressing a piece of the commons that it’s going to take responsibility for. That’s purpose. Mission is the business that you’re in and the way in which you’re going to deliver your business. So if you’re a technology company that makes computers and computing machines, your mission is to build the best computing machine to tackle, you know, problems and challenges. The why you do it, that’s your purpose, right? So your purpose may be providing that computing power to everyone and your purpose leans into access. So that’s the difference between a purpose and a mission. And then your vision. This is your description of how will the world be different? Where are we all headed collectively? That’s what a vision statement is, and those all work together in helping a company define for all of its stakeholders, most importantly, its employees, to create alignment that everyone understands. This is what we’re all showing up every day to do together. I’ll use Porter Novelli where I work as a good example. Our purpose statement is we were created on purpose to help companies do business better. Our purpose that we show up every day for is to actually help companies live out their purpose. That’s our purpose. And so I know when I come in every day, that’s what we’re trying to do and I work alongside my colleagues to do that. So that’s how the interplay between purpose and mission and vision play together. 

Adrian Tennant: You feature case studies and examples throughout Purposeful Brands. Are there some successful brands that most US or UK consumers recognize as being purpose-driven?

Sandy Skees: I’m going to answer this in two parts. The first is, I think, because a lot of people confuse purpose and brand and mission, some well-known companies with highly recognizable brands get credit for being purposeful brands because people understand who they are as a business and companies like Apple and Google and others like that, they get credit because they’re such well-known brands. Having said that, I do think there’s a handful of companies that are in fact living out what I would call the true meaning of purpose, which is some greater good they’re trying to create in the world alongside and through their business. Actually, a great example I think is IKEA. They’re a fascinating company that sort of democratized furniture and household items, right? And very quickly, they saw the environmental problem they were creating in terms of sort of throw away, non, long term items. and what I’ve seen them do is take responsibility for that and start building still price accessible homewares that are more durable, more lasting, and so I think you’re watching that company, in some ways, reinvent itself in order to take the responsibility for the environment, which is where its purpose has landed and operationalize it in its business in terms of the kinds of products it’s making, and the ways in which they’re helping their customers refurbish or return or recycle any products they may buy from them. So it’s a very interesting company that I’ve been watching. I actually think Proctor and Gamble is another great example of a company. So think of it for a minute. Proctor and Gamble is a consumer packaged goods company, CPG. CPG has become a category or an industry now consumer packaged good. These are the companies that make these things that we either consume or ingest on a pretty regular basis, and then throw them away. Throw the bottle away, et cetera. what Proctor and Gamble did is took a look at their portfolio of multiple brands from Tide to Cascade to Ivory to Olay, right? They’ve got beauty brands and house cleaning brands and personal care brands, and they began to look at, “Well, what’s the environmental footprint that these products, both environmental and social, and they’re looking at what’s the environmental – we’ll take that as an example – impact of our products on the planet?” And I’m going to use Tide as a great example because everyone washes clothes. So what Tide discovered when they assessed the environmental footprint of the Tide product is actually the greatest impact on the environment when washing clothes was heating water to make hot water, to wash clothes. And so they went to their scientists and said, “Hey, can you create a formulation of Tide that works just as good in cold water and gets the same level of cleanliness?” and you know, scientists being scientists, they did that. However, now where are we? Now we’re at a behavior change challenge, which is a communications challenge, which is how do we get people to set their washer setting to cold and actually wash clothes in cold? Most people think it has to be pretty hot to get things clean, although that’s not true with this formulation. And so now they’re in the midst of culture change at scale, which involves changing consumers’ behavior and their interaction with the product. And then they’re also in conversations with washing machine manufacturers, right? Because did you know that the normal setting on almost all washers is actually quite hot? And so inadvertently, we’ve got everybody setting it to normal, and even if they wanted to set it to cold, if they set it to normal, it already is hot. So that’s a whole system change in order to help a product move from being environmentally impactful to reducing its impact. The other thing they did is, and almost all the detergents and now shampoos and most of the personal care products are looking at concentrating, right? Because a lot of those products, they are developed as a concentrate. You add water, you put ’em in the bottle to put it on shelves. Well, all that water, when you’re going to just add water when you’re showering or washing clothes, that’s actually the best place to add the water instead of putting it in a jug that then is heavier, that takes more energy to move it around from factory to distribution center to grocery stores. So they’re looking at all of these things, and Partner Gamble isn’t the only one doing it. But what I like is how they very much understand and are working on product innovation simultaneously with, culture change, behavior change by their consumers. 

Adrian Tennant: In the second chapter of Purposeful Brands, you describe ways of articulating a brand’s purpose. Could you talk about the key components of the three-phase process that you’ve developed and used with clients?

Sandy Skees: Happy to. So the three phases for anyone in the, you know, marketing, communications, and brand world, these phases are going to sound familiar. It’s discovery, then it’s what I call blue sky ideation. And then there’s plan development. What we’re talking about is how does a company articulate its purpose: this greater good it’s going to create in the world; this part of the commons, it’s going to take responsibility for. A lot of people think that a purposeful brand has to be one that is coming into being now, it’s got to be an early stage. You really can only have a purposeful brand, if you build it that way. And that’s certainly true. But what we see is mature brands, companies that are hundred, 150 years old, also can articulate a purpose. And the first thing in that discovery phase is, I like to say, go back to the founder’s story. Because usually, in a founder’s story, what the very earliest days of the company were, or a desire to create something that positively impacts the world in some way. Ford and its creation of the automobile was about allowing for transportation to be available to everyone. The way they priced the initial Model Ts, all of it was designed to make access to mobility for everyone. And if you look at how they’re defining their purpose now, it’s still about mobility. It’s still about access. But it’s also taking the planetary impacts of that mobility and transportation into account. It’s why, gosh, it must have been 10 years ago that their business strategy shifted from an internal combustion engine product line to now what you see is more and more and more fully EV brands, including their most iconic brands of the Ford Mustang and the Ford F-150 truck. So that’s a company that saw its initial sort of founders story, founders lore, and have re-envisioned and re enliven it today. So in the discovery phase, you’re going to look the company and its founding story. The other thing you’re going to do is look at the environmental and social dimensionality of a company and how it’s behaving today. Most companies are certainly doing things that are good for the environment and good for society, because regulatorily, they’re required to, whether that’s managing the pollution that companies put into the air or ensuring that workers are safe when they’re working on the factory floor, all companies have some approach to environmental and social good. And hidden in those programs are sort of beyond regulatory or beyond compliance, that different companies are doing, that gives you a hint at where their sense of innovation and imagination is around that. And you might have a company that has really dangerous, manufacturing in and around dangerous chemicals, for example, and they’ve adopted a high value of a safe work environment. So that type of care for employees gives you a hint at where a purpose might land. So in discovery, you’re going to look at that too. What are we already doing? What do we have capacity to do more for? We’re going to look at the competitive landscape. What are others in your category doing? Have they defined a purpose? What sort of territory have they staked out as being their territory or their part of the commons they’re working on? Because you always want to have your articulation of purpose be true to who you are as a brand, what you’re able to do, what you can do, what you have imagination and resources to do, but also that differentiates you in some way from those in your peer group. Um, and then lastly, you’re going to look at what’s happening out in the world. What does the world need? What we need now are companies who, in addition to doing no harm, are going to commit environmentally to actually restoring ecosystems in some way, to putting water back in the aquifer is cleaner than how it was taken out. Those kinds of restorative and replenishing purposes can be revealed if that’s what the world needs in the business that you’re in. So that’s discovery. When you put all that together in a, you know, a pot and you mix it all together, that’s where the blue sky ideation comes, because somewhere in the who you are, where you came from, what you’re uniquely good and prepared to do, and what the world needs from you, is your purpose articulation. When you get that right, a plan, and imagination, and creativity become just unlocked because you are clear about your purpose, and most purpose statements are focused in either an environmental, cause or a social dimension. Not both Because you can’t have purposes that fix everything. You have to run your business and make money doing it, but it’s as a business, in addition to driving value for your customers and your shareholders, what value are you bringing to the bigger world to the commons. All of that together should give you permission to try things you haven’t tried before and say no to some directions that maybe aren’t as tight in alignment with your purpose. So those are the three dimensions, discovery, blue sky ideation, and then plan development.

Adrian Tennant: Excellent. Let’s take a short break. We’ll be right back after these messages. 

Michael Solomon: Hi, I’m Michael Solomon. During my 40-year career as a marketing professor, consumer psychologist, speaker, and author, I’ve had the privilege of developing strategies with many Fortune 500 companies to help them connect with their customers. Now, you can have access to these strategies through my online course. It’s called Engage! How To Turn Your Bored Customers Into Brand Fanatics. I’ll show you how to apply years of research on consumer psychology to your brand or business. And as an IN CLEAR FOCUS listener, you can receive a hundred dollars discount on your enrollment. Just follow the link in the transcript for this podcast on Bigeye’s website and use the provided coupon code to take advantage of this offer. I hope you’ll join me for Engage! to learn how to turn board customers into brand fanatics!

Sandy Skees: I’m Sandy Skees, author of the book, Purposeful Brands: How Purpose and Sustainability Drive Brand Value and Positive Change. Based on three decades of experience, the book presents a clear, practical blueprint for defining and communicating your brand’s purpose and, more importantly, creating alignment across your organization to drive meaningful change. As an IN CLEAR FOCUS listener, you can save 25 percent on a print or electronic version of Purposeful Brands by using the exclusive promo code BIGEYE25. This code is valid for all products and pre-orders and applies to Kogan Page’s free paperback and e-book bundle offer. When you order directly from Kogan Page, shipping is always free to the US and the UK, which also helps us authors. So to order your copy of Purposeful Brands, go to KoganPage.com. That’s K O G A N, P A G E dot com. And thank you. 

Adrian Tennant: Welcome back. I’m talking with Sandy Skees, Executive Vice President, Global Purpose and Impact Lead at Porter Novelli, and the author of this month’s Bigeye Book Club Selection, Purposeful Brands: How Purpose and Sustainability Drive Brand Value and Positive Change. Chapter seven of Purposeful Brands is Showing up as an ally, advocate, or activist. Sandy, what are the differences between these three personas?

Sandy Skees: So anytime a company articulates its purpose, there’s an expectation that that company, more and more, is going to show up and speak out on social issues in particular. And we’re seeing this over and over today, especially. That’s the expectation. it started with Covid, certainly after the murder of George Floyd and the MeToo and Black Lives Matter movements. You see an expectation that companies speak out. In my theory of change, and in the book, what I talk about is a company cannot show up and speak out the same on all issues. It doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint. And so the first thing is to look at the issues that are relevant to your business and then decide –  are we going to show up as an ally, an advocate, or an activist? And ally means we are going to have a more passive, “we’re here, we agree, we know this issue is important to our employees and we recognize that these are important issues.” That’s sort of allyship. “Yes, we see this issue and we stand in solidarity.” An advocate is willing to put a little bit more social capital, if you will, or not capital in the sense of monetary capital, but, more in the sense of, effort in saying, “you know what? we might sign a petition or sign on to a statement or stand alongside others.” That’s what it means to be an advocate. An activist, to take that stand on an issue, means you’re going to lead change about that issue. great example is Patagonia, right? They’re an activist when it comes to the environment. They have pushed for legislation. They have filed lawsuits against the United States government in terms of protecting public lands. They’re an activist when it comes to protecting the wild spaces in the environment. They show up more as an ally on some DEI and social issues, it’s important. It helps a company know how much effort, and based on how relevant the issue is to the brand, to the company, and your purpose.

Adrian Tennant: As we are recording this, of course, we have sort of an unfolding news story. In the past few weeks, Bud Light came under attack and faced threats of a boycott from some consumers after the brand sent beer in a personalized can to transgender influencer, Dylan Mulvaney, who was commemorating her first year of womanhood. Although Anheuser-Busch’s CEO, Brendan Whitworth defended the partnership with Mulvaney, two senior marketing executives have since reportedly taken involuntary leaves of absence. Sandy, are there lessons for brands to learn from this controversy? Can brands show support for marginalized communities without attracting this kind of backlash?

Sandy Skees: Yeah, it is fascinating to watch this unfold. And I will start by saying, the apology or the statement by the CEO was, I think more benign or more flat, if you will. It was just a fairly flat statement. Can brands avoid this kind of controversy? The answer is no. When activist groups – any activist group – decide to take an action – in this case, it was a marketing campaign – and use it as a spark to drive outrage, there’s nothing you can do about that because it isn’t actually about the person necessarily. it’s a means to create a bonfire of outrage over in a community that can have its outrage inflamed. What we know with these kinds of activities, boycotts, and frankly BUYcotts – which is the opposite, it’s like, “I’m going to go buy from that company because I believe in what they’re doing,” – is the long-term effect of these on revenue, on share price, they don’t last. Because if the fundamental of the business, is good, the business will be fine. So I feel like this is a flash. It’s lasted longer than I would’ve expected. But you look at a company like Nike and its support of Colin Kaepernick; they had all the same kinds of outrage online, and the company didn’t suffer long term. You might have a lot of negative noise on the social networks for a while, but it’ll die down. What I think is interesting here is you had a smart marketing executive who understood where the next generation of customers are coming from and who that next generation is, by and large – Gen Z and, Millennials, and then Alpha below Gen Z, the next generation of young people – they aren’t beer drinkers yet, but one day they will be. They are, by and large, completely accepting of the fluidity of gender and gender identity. They are, more multiracial, and multiethnic than any generation before, and they have certain expectations of the companies they buy from. And so one of those leave of absence marketing executives understood and was making an attempt in a closed system. It was products sent to a particular influencer, in this case, Dylan Mulvaney, so that Dylan could talk to her followers. That was when that post got shared beyond her network, that the outrage machine started. So this was not taking a transgender influencer and putting that person over in every demographic group. It was intended to help begin to create some affinity with a young transgender-affirming community. So can brands – how do they show support? I think you continue to show support and expect this kind of backlash. Know that it’s coming from certain groups and build that into your plan to tolerate it, and don’t engage with it. 

Adrian Tennant: Excellent advice, thank you. For brands that have an authentic sustainability story to tell, the eighth chapter of Purposeful Brands provides a communications framework and campaign approach. Sandy, could you talk briefly about the roles that research and platform ideation can play?

Sandy Skees: Well, the first research is to understand the attitudes and beliefs and how much information and knowledge do people have about your purpose or your sustainability issues, across your stakeholders. Your customers have one set of understanding about who you are and what you’re doing. Your investors will have another, your employees, another. So the first is just to do some basic audience profiling. And when I say that, I mean not just what they think about the company and how they rate your product or your services, but what they think about your company’s response to climate or social issues and what they expect of you. So know that because you’re going to create messaging once you’ve established your purpose or your sustainability strategy, now you need to message it in a way that your stakeholders understand what you’re actually doing and what kind of progress you’re making. Then it leads you to the creation of whether it’s a purpose platform or a sustainability platform. Because think about it, whatever your purpose is, if it leans more heavily into an environmental good you want to create in the world, or a social cohesion, let’s call it inclusion or something like that, whichever rise to the top as your purpose, you’re going to be implementing that through a sustainability strategy, And you’re going to have a sustainability, both environmental and social program, managing your environmental inputs and impacts and your social impacts. You’re going to be managing those just as a normal course of business, and you need to be able to tell a cohesive story about how all that fits together. That’s the beauty of a purpose platform it’s a way of expressing the non-financial dimensions of your business and how those things all play together. for some companies, their sustainability strategy, you know, it might be something like, Well, let me go back to Proctor and Gamble cause I think that’s actually a good idea. Their mission is, “we will provide branded products and services of superior quality and value,” but their purpose is “to improve the lives of the world’s consumers now and for generations to come.” And you can hear in that signals that tell you they’re going to have a diversity and inclusion program and they’re going to have a planetary program now in generations to come, tells you that they’re going to care for the earth for multiple generations and likely unspoken, but in there is all species. So that gives you a signal of how they’re going to behave. Once you’ve got that statement, then you can have the pillars underneath it, which allows you to go really deep in. “Here’s what our environmental program looks like. Here’s what our social program looks like. Here’s the governance structure that we have in place. That means you can trust that these goals we set, we actually have resources and capitalization in order to keep meeting them.” And then,” here’s how we’re going to be a good corporate citizen and show up in the world. we understand our role in the world. We have a mature sense of the role we will play in the world.” Those are the sort of pillars that sit underneath that platform. And then below that are all the proof points, and those change year on year, depending on programs that are working well and things that you’re doing, milestones you’re hitting, accomplishments, challenges you’re facing, all that becomes part of the storytelling underneath. 

Adrian Tennant: What do you hope readers will take away from Purposeful Brands?

Sandy Skees: There are two things I want people to understand about communicating purpose and sustainability in all kinds of communications, from advertising and marketing through to corporate communications, all of it. The first is these are very complex dimensions of a business that require a whole range of communications across all of your owned, earned, and paid channels. There’s so much complexity in what a company is doing to reduce its carbon footprint, for example, or reduce its greenhouse gases, improve the way it manages water, all those things. Highly complex. This isn’t just one report you’re going to issue. You need to be communicating it over and over throughout the course of the year. Think about on-pack as a place to communicate those messages. Think about it on-shelf, on your website, on your socials. This is a complex story that needs lots of ways in, et cetera. The second thing I want you to know is that the language you use to tell the story runs the spectrum from highly technical, highly factual, extremely transparent, very detailed, and data-driven, all the way up to inspirational, aspirational, and visionary. A CSO that I’ve worked with who I love dearly, who’s been a leader in this space for years, she said, “It’s up to us to set the highest order vision of the kind of world we want to create with our business. That we have to both set that vision and then explain in scientific terms how we’re going to get there.” And that is a very interesting communications challenge. We need words that are aspirational and pull people along with us as a business and a brand. And we need highly technical information so those who are trying to really understand the progress we’re making can find the facts in the things that we’re saying. 

Adrian Tennant: As you probably have noticed, the industry magazine, Adweek has recently been running a series of articles under the banner, The State of Sustainability. It reflects the uncomfortable reality that the advertising industry significantly contributes to carbon emissions. Now strategists and planners may not be directly involved in mining, manufacturing, or shipping products, but we do play a crucial role in generating and amplifying consumer demand, which justifies product creation. So Sandy, what advice would you give to other creative and communications professionals looking to make a positive impact on sustainability and climate action?

Sandy Skees: I think there are a couple of ways. One is in the way in which we depict people in commercials, in ads, and in visuals. Can we have a recycling bin somewhere in the shot, for example? Can we have two people who are chatting instead of each holding a disposable coffee cup? Maybe one’s rinsing out the peanut butter jar to throw it into the recycling bin. Like all those social cues, that we as creators have access to, we can change behavior very subtly. Or using those subtle behavior cues, you know, in the shot, and think about how do we do that? How can we use this commercial for, you know, hand soap? Maybe we show the person washing their hands and turning the tap off in between soaping up your hands. Like it’s all those little behavior cues that will drive behavior change. So I think that’s number one. The second thing and I actually said this, I was a guest speaker at a very large food and consumer goods packaging company – I was a guest speaker for their Earth Week all-hands employee kickoff – and what we were talking about was product innovation. Brand managers are always looking for what’s the next product we’re going to bring to market? We’ve got a budget, we’re in the innovation pipeline. We’re thinking about, you know, “Let’s go with a vanilla flavor this year. Let’s add vanilla.” And my question to them was, “Hey, instead of a new flavor, how about using that capital and developing a bottle that’s based on bioplastics, not petroleum plastic?” Like, let’s let the innovation not necessarily just be one more SKU on the shelf, but improve the SKUs that we have, or if people are currently enjoying your products in a particular form factor now today, which involves packaging that they peel away and throw away, what might be an innovative way they could enjoy what you make in a completely different form factor that you haven’t thought about yet? That’s a product innovation and a marketing innovation, that can have both social and environmental impact. Another is, are there swaths of the market that you’re leaving out? We were working with a yogurt company that was looking at places where there were food deserts – and a food desert is a place where communities that are economically challenged don’t have access to healthy foods. And so what they were looking for is “How do we get our high-quality yogurt in convenience stores and bodegas and other places where the choices for consumers are less?” So they had a product strategy that had a social dimension to it, and I think those are all ways that we, as marketers, communicators, brand strategists, can use what we do. It’s how do we leverage our communications vehicles and platforms, and then how do we think about the products that we’re using? 

Adrian Tennant: Sandy, thank you for sharing your insights with us today. And if IN CLEAR FOCUS listeners would like to learn more about you and the work you’re doing at Porter Novelli, what is the best way for them to connect?

Sandy Skees: The best way is on my website, which is SandySkees.com – S A N D Y S K E E S dot com. There’s a place where you can pop me an email, and I’ll be happy to get back to you. 

Adrian Tennant: Perfect. And if you’d like to read Sandy’s book, Purposeful Brands, as an IN CLEAR FOCUS listener, you’ll receive a 25 percent discount when you purchase a print or electronic version online at KoganPage.com. Just enter the promo code, BIGEYE25, at the checkout. Sandy, thank you very much indeed for being our guest on IN CLEAR FOCUS.

Sandy Skees: Thank you so much, Adrian. It was a pleasure.

Adrian Tennant: Thanks again to my guest this week, Sandy Skees, the author of this month’s Bigeye Book Club selection, Purposeful Brands. As always, you’ll find a full transcript of our conversation and links to the resources we discussed on the Bigeye website at Bigeyeagency.com. Just select ‘podcast’ from the menu. Thanks again for listening to IN CLEAR FOCUS, produced by Bigeye. I’ve been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next week, goodbye.